What sort of parent would allow this operation? Only in MA , the state the other 49 laught at
A knee jerk reaction from a poorly written article. Children who are diagnosed with GID (Gender Identity Disorder) go to this physician for direction and medical help. A few of the things not covered in the story: There is no drug prescribed until the onset of puberty and then only if the child has a solid diagnosis of GID by pyschologists trained specifically in gender disorder. The drugs given are to block hormone production but are 100% reversible when the drug is stopped. Between initial diagnosis and puberty the most that is done for the child, besides psychological screening, is that they are allowed to assume the role of the opposite gender. No "sex change" is prerformed until the child reaches legal age, can make the decision for themselves, has a solid dianosis of GID and then meets all the criteria established by the medical community through the Harry Benjamin Standards.
What would your reaction be if you found out that doctors all over the nation were prescribing "speed, legally, to children? Sorry to say it is done all the time!! It is used to treat ADHD but I bet you wouldn't disagree with a physician for that prescribing, so why are you against appropriately treating another medical condition, GID?
GID: Yet another phony disorder. Here's a better prescription. Let the kids grow up.
Just because it has initials and a quack behind it don't make it real.
[QUOTE who="BigBish"]GID: Yet another phony disorder. Here's a better prescription. Let the kids grow up.
Just because it has initials and a quack behind it don't make it real.[/QUOTE]
So, "Doctor" BigBish, where did you get your medical degree from? GID has been around as long as there has been people. Every society across the entire world, every socioeconomic group, race, religion etc. has people who have GID. This is nothing new and, except for a few societies (the US included) is not only accepted, but holds a special elevated status within the culture.
I don't need a medical degree. If you have a penis you live as a man if you have a vagina you live as a woman and thats that. Simple enough.
"I don't need a medical degree. If you have a penis you live as a man if you have a vagina you live as a woman and thats that. Simple enough. "
There, you see how not having a medical degree has backed you into a corner where you never say never and never say always? Have you ever heard of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS)? People born with AIS have XY (that would be guy) chromosomes and have female genitalia but are sterile as either sex. Now what sex are they? How about those born as intersexed, no clearly dominant genitalia? Need I go on, Mr. BigBish?
I'm with Bish on this one.
For some reason, parents, teachers, doctors, RikkiS have to have a "name" for what they (the children) "are", or how they "feel" or how they "act". This comes from the same place as the "everyone has to have a trophy" or "we don't keep score" crowd.
RikkiS, while I am sure if I Googled the conditions you mentioned I will find they are real, I think I would also find information from reputable doctors and scientists that these "conditions" are over-diagnosed, overindulged and overblown.
Many parents bring their children to a doctor because they feel/think that their child is acting in an "abnormal" or "unusual" manner. The parents read about a condition and suddenly, they believe that their child has (insert condition of your choice here). Doctors then "confirm" what the parents feel/think.
Consider the explosion in Aspergers diagnoses over the past 10 years. Or ADHD for even a little longer. The symptoms of these conditions are the "flu-like symptoms" of the psychology world. What was once "normal childhood behavior" is now a "disorder". Poorly trained teachers, over reactive parents and complicit doctors (who are encouraged by DRUG MANUFACTURERS) now find ways of making childhood a disorder.
Sure, you can argue Bish into the ground with your medical terminology. You can point to studies and Bish's lack of a medical degree (which we aren't sure he lacks) but you can't make everyone believe that what you "feel" is okay/moral/normal. Gender Identity Disorder is classified as "a feeling of being uncomfortable with one's assigned gender". It is a psychiatric classification and describes the problems related to transsexuality, transgender identity and more rarely transvestism".
The key word there is "feeling". It is not a medical condition.
"Sure, you can argue Bish into the ground with your medical terminology. You can point to studies and Bish's lack of a medical degree (which we aren't sure he lacks) but you can't make everyone believe that what you "feel" is okay/moral/normal. Gender Identity Disorder is classified as "a feeling of being uncomfortable with one's assigned gender". It is a psychiatric classification and describes the problems related to transsexuality, transgender identity and more rarely transvestism"."
"V",
I agree with you on some parts of this. I am an RN who works in an Emergency Room and see the whole gamut of physical and mental problems. I too believe that ADHD is waaaaay overdiagnosed and is typically because of a child being normal an dparents being intolerant.
AIS is real. Here is a link to e-medicine to read for yourself, http://www.emedicine.com/ped/TOPIC2222.HTM
So far as GID, yes it is a "feeling" and has a "psychological" diagnosis (so also does Erectile Dysfunction), but I hardly agree that it is either the "flu" of the psychological world or the "everyone has to have a trophy" crowd. I find it hard to believe that a 2 year old fits that category yet there is a very small number across every contintent, every race, every religion and every socioeconomic group who have GID. Certainly there are those who discount children because they are "too young to know" and it is the parents. If you apply GID to the adult world, then please tell me why any rational person would subject themselves to this with the rejection that many in society apply to these folks? If it is truly a psychological diagnosis, then why is surgery recommended as a treatment? That sounds like cutting off your nose if you suffer from frequent nose bleeds! Pretty extreme treatment, if you ask me.
The reason that this discussion continues is that as humans we want to "see" something. We need to have a lab test, an x-ray or something tangible to confirm a diagnosis. We also tend to base our beliefs on what we see on sensationalistic TV shows like Maury or Springer. The truth is that GID folks are everywhere and you would never even guess that the nurse who just took care of you, the computer programmer who just wrote that new software program, that Doctor who just examined you.......were all transgendered because they just live their life and don't make any big deal of it.
So far as GID, yes it is a "feeling" and has a "psychological" diagnosis (so also does Erectile Dysfunction)- This is just wrong- ED has physical manifestations.
Aside from wishing they had different junk, does GID manifest itself in a way that can be measured? If not it ranks right up there with hypocondria.
The reason that this discussion continues is that as humans we want to "see" something. We need to have a lab test, an x-ray or something tangible to confirm a diagnosis. We also tend to base our beliefs on what we see on sensationalistic TV shows like Maury or Springer. The truth is that GID folks are everywhere and you would never even guess that the nurse who just took care of you, the computer programmer who just wrote that new software program, that Doctor who just examined you.......were all transgendered because they just live their life and don't make any big deal of it. - This is quack diagnosis at its finest. I guess if I just 'feel ' something is wrong it is?
GID is just a feeling. If I get horny all the time is there an initialized pop psychosis disease for that too? Because if there is, I have it.
Oh, I just imagined a baby kicking in my belly. I must have MPID - Male Pregnancy Imagination Disorder!!!!
What bunk. No wonder kids are so F'd up.
And just what "physical manifestations" that a physician can see or measure does ED have besides what you tell them? Is it because your lover isn't good enough to get you excited that you need a pill? How do we measure it? What test is done to conclusively "prove" ED exists. It is a psychological diagnosis as evidenced by it's medical code of "302.72 Male erectile disorder" found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, Text Revision, also known as DSM-IV-TR, a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) that includes all currently recognized mental health disorders. Just for you, here is an article from Psychology Today:
http://psychologytoday.com/conditions/sexarousal.html
Yes, there is medical diagnosis for your horny condition. It's our nature to try to classify things.
So far as your last statement, "No wonder kids are so F'd up.", you are so poorly informed. GID has occurred across every contintent, every race, every religion and every socioeconomic group since man has been on Earth. All you have to do is open a book on history and read to find that out. The only reason that you are aware of it now is the internet has shrunk the world to a point that you can read about anything and, in the interest of "creating news", stories like this one get printed.
Do you have it? Its only 4 words and a punctuation mark. Feel free to dissect. Quote numbers and texts and stuff too. That really impresses me and makes me want to alter my opinion about this phony malady. I'm moving on. If I get GIDDYUP, I'll come back and post. Now I have INACOD
I need a cup of Dunks.
Its interesting how you leave things out to strengthen your position. You must be a Clinton Democrat. Some causes of ED are cardiovascular leakage and diabetes, many of which are medically treatable. Nerve trauma from prostatectomy surgery can cause chronic erectile dysfunction.
I can look at Wikopedia too
I was wondering has GID occurred across every contintent, every race, every religion and every socioeconomic group since man has been on Earth?
Because you don't mention if it has or hasn't in any of your posts.
Your ability to monolog for so many paragraphs obviously indicates you are so much smarter than I am that it would be futile for me to even consider having an opinion of my own.
I surrender. GID, IUD, M&M's . They all threaten the fabric of mankind.
Do they have a walk for GID? Thats the sign of a REAL disease.
If you've read this far into the post you have too much time on your hands and should get a hobby.
I like Denny's. The Grand Slam is a quality breakfast at a low price. Thats what this country needs you know.
I guess according to you, people with ED like diabetics are just faking it.
You are the one who brought up the psychological part of it. Since you readily agree that ED ALSO has a medical cause, then why can't you agree that GID just might be medical in nature? Oh, as a Registered Nurse, I don't need Wikipedia to look up the medical stuff, just to give you a place that you can understand. I believe that my knowledge of human pathophysiology is pretty good since not only do I need to be able to understand in medical terms, but also need to be able to translate it for my patients. I also prefer much more reputable sites like E-medicine, etc. since the authors of Wikipedia can be just about anyone.
Oh, BTW, I have voted a straight (no pun intended) Republican ticket since 1972. Clinton was a ........... well I believe this onoe thing we DO agree on! Oh, yeah, Denny's is pretty good.
Oh, no........A tranny who is a Republican and likes Denny's!! You better run!! It just might be catching!
I'm trying to weigh back in on this but keep getting denied for "questionable" content. Not sure why. I e-mailed and will find out.
Rikki; (I'll try this...1st half)
I'm wondering if you would be so vociferous about GID if you were not a "tranny". I've met a lot of alcoholics in my time too. Funny thing is, (alcoholism) it's not their fault. They wax poetic about it being a "disease". AA is often an excuse-fest as much as it is anything else.
My point above about "flu like symptoms" was not directed at GID. There's something else at work there for sure.
As to why there is a medical treatment for GID, I think it is more that we can do it (sex change) than it is anything else. Medical science allows us to "fix" things that psychology does not. Doesn't make it right. Pretty soon we'll be able to clone people too and then we'll have disposable people.
As to why "rational" people would "subject themselves" to a sex change, I disagree with your premise. I don't think anyone who feels they need one is rational. That's not a value judgment, that is a recognition of the psychological disorder. And for a parent to make that decision for a child is criminal.
What happens if a person born a male (with "GID") undergoes a sex change or drug therapy in their teens.....and then becomes a "female". Then in their 20's, 30's, 40's wants to change back?
Second half didn't work. Google Renee Richards and read his/her story....she/he regrets it......
First, we do know that alcoholism is a disease. It can be prevented and treated by NOT consuming alcohol. Why is it a disease? Because for the average person, the intake of alcohol is handled quite well by the mind and the body, however in the alcoholic, the brain releases endorphins from the pleasure center that tells the body it needs the alcohol to survive, so alcoholics drink because their brain won't let their body stop.
You are right, from your point of view it doesn't make much sense for a rational person to seek a surgical solution to a "psychological" problem. From our point of view, it is logical to have a brain and body in tune with each other. Since you seem to be a rational, thinking person, what would you do if you woke up one morning (it doesn't happen this way for us, but it makes it easier to explain to you) and when you came into the bathroom you saw a body in the mirror that was opposite of your thoughts and you had to go about the day masquerading as this "other" person and everyone told you that you must be crazy to think you are a girl when you are "obviously" a boy? I guess the one question for all of you to answer is what difference does it make to you that I was born male and identify as female? I am not asking you to do the same, in fact I would hope that you don't have to go through what we do. I am not asking you to date me or be my lover. I am not asking for any of your money to pay for it as I have to pay 100% of all medical costs associated as insurance companies don't cover any of it.
I can tell you quite unequivocabley that the parent of a child with GID does NOT make that decision for the child. The child tells the parents and then it is only after exhausting all methods of treatment that someone like Dr. Spack is brought into the picture. Even then, nothing medically is done until the child reaches puberty. At that point a decision is made by everyone, doctor, psychologist, child, parents... as to what is to be done. If more time is needed, then hormone blockers may be prescribed which stop the onset of puberty. If the blockers are stopped, then development will occur as if they had never been given. Cross hormones aren't prescribed until much later when no other course is available. Surgery is NOT done until the patient is old enough to make that decision for themselves and then, must meet all the criteria as set by the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care. This is not a course that is taken lightly nor easily accomplished.
And your "what if" statement is pretty bogus. What if as a female you get breast augmentation in your 20's and regret it later? What if you took a left at the traffic light instead of a right and were killed in a crash. What if you married Suzy instead of Sally? What if..... Life is full of "what if's" but we have to live for ourselves and be responsible enough to accept our decisions.
As for me, I am perfectly happy with my decision to follow my mind and my heart. My family, friends and co-workers have not had any issues with it. The patients that I treat (I am an RN) accept me, so why are you concerned about this choice?
I am not concerned in the slightest about YOUR choice. You have to do what you have to do. What concerns me is that you seem to wish to make YOUR choice "THE" choice when it should be the last.
As for alcoholism, I've read arguments both ways and don't want to get into a discussion about that here.
I disagree with your assertion that my "what if" is bogus. Google Renee Richards. There are many other examples. Just because you disagree does not make my point invalid. There are easy (relatively) solutions to your "what if's. Breast reduction, fate (can't do anything about that one), divorce. Sure, some solutions may be regretable, but they aren't what reversing a sex change would be.
Maybe parents don't make the decision, but they can sure encourage it. There is a fine line (when you are a child) between encouragement and expectation. How many people have become doctors, lawyers, firefighters, etc... because of parental expectations/encouragement.
The simple fact remains Rikki, we reassign gender because we can, and because we can't seem to find out why people have the disorder (so, psychologically speaking, we can't fix it). If the disorder could be fixed, we wouldn't have to reassign.
I am happy for you that your patients, family, friends accept you. That may have to do more with you than with "it" (GID). If you don't wear a sign around your neck, maybe people just don't know. If you tell everyone what your issue is and what you are doing about it, I'd have some reservations.
In fact, the choice to get treatment is the LAST choice for everyone. A male child does not announce to their parents that they are female and are immediately whisked off to the likes of Dr. Spack. There is a huge amount of psychological intervention to rule out other causes for that feeling, as well as medical intervention by their primary doctor to rule out anything that could be pathological and then, and only then, are they referred to Dr. Spack. NOTHING is done medically for the child until they reach puberty. At that point, if everything still points to GID, then they may be started on hormone blockers to stop puberty. After a few years, if things STILL point to GID, then they may be started on cross hormones. If GID is not still as valid diagnosis, then the child has the meds stopped and they will develop normally, albeit later than their peers, but normally.
For Renee Richards, she never said she regretted her surgery, "In her book, Dr. Richards never writes that she regrets having had her surgery..." an excerpt from this NY Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/01/garden/01renee.html?pagewanted=all
For some reason, whenever I insert the Renee richards quote from here
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html
it is rejected for "questionable content". My inquiry has gone unanswered. Read the link. Sure seems like she regrets it to me.
